Father-Son Dialog

[digginfool]

A poem written in 1949 by Rep. Clarence J. Brown (R-Ohio) regarding Truman and the Democrats:

Father, must I go to work?
No my lucky son.
We're living now on Easy Street
On dough from Washington.

We've left it up to Uncle Sam
So don't get exercised.
Nobody has to give a damn -
We've all been subsidized.

But if Sam treats us all so well
And feeds us milk and honey,
Please, daddy, tell me what the hell
He's going to use for money.

Don't worry, bub, there's not a hitch
In this here noble plan -
He simply soaks the filthy rich
And helps the common man.

But, father, won't there come a time
When they run out of cash
And we have left them not a dime
When things will go to smash?

My faith in you is shrinking, son,
You nosy little brat;
You do too damn much thinking, son,
To be a Democrat.


Just goes to show you how long the socialists have been working to foment class warfare to fulfill their agenda.  And, trust history, Socialists do not have your (the Proletariat - the working man, the common man) best interests at heart.

[trx#9]

Is this what you rich republican's email around to each other?

[FishaHallic]

Another posting of what was not said by a democrat but was said by a republican.

I guess this is all your side has now, wanna be stories made up by the ultra right wing to try and take the sheepish following off the republican candidates misdeeds and immoral behavior.  The funny part is all the dems have to do is sit back and watch as the republicans go thru each others trash trying to dig up dirt on each other and if they can't dig it up they will make it up, anything for victory!

[FishaHallic]

This just in..............http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57332967-503544/herman-cain-reassessing-candidacy-after-affair-claim/   Cain will soon be out and we all know about Newts past, I am sure there are more skeletons in his large closet.

[Anoriginal]

It's a poem. That's all. It's not a farce or a made up story. Just a poem.

And, regardless of your political affiliation, you have to admit the poem contains a lot of truths and likeness to the current state of affairs. Things are bad and they're just getting worse.

[MedicMudder]

You Dems are amazing when Bill Clinton was popping anything with a pulse,"it was his personal life" we were told,but let a Republican color outside the lines,you guys want their heads.Barney Frank was running a gay prostution ring out of his house in DC nothing was said UNBELIVABLE!!!!

[FishaHallic]

"Color outside the lines".............is that a nice way to say someone is cheating on their spouse?

I have brought this up before and I will mention it again, republicans run their whole campaigns on being god fearing, righteous ,bible thumping, pro marriage and anti gay and fiscally conservative.  Between GW Bush and Hermain Cain and the Newt all these agendas have been broken and twisted and swept under the rug when it is no longer needed for votes or campaign contributions.  Yes, the dems violate all these things also  BUT, they don't run a campaign on these so called values so when they violate these "values" it is not the same.

[FishaHallic]

It's a poem. That's all. It's not a farce or a made up story. Just a poem.

And, regardless of your political affiliation, you have to admit the poem contains a lot of truths and likeness to the current state of affairs. Things are bad and they're just getting worse.

I don't see it.  Our country did not change overnight as some of you would like to believe, the issues that are facing this country have been decades in the making and will take many years to resolve but my question to you is why is the country in such bad shape?  Of course we know the main thing is the economy, which was dropping like a ton of bricks when Obama came to office and we know the national debt (which btw I have been complaining about for years and most republicans would not give it a second thought) is rising which I am saying the debt is rising due to the failing economy.

What I am getting at is this, if this "poem" does say something about our current state of affairs and it also said something about the then current state of affairs in 1949 (when the poem was written) then I think we can assume the current state of affairs has been going on for at least 60+ years but why?  The republicans acting as if they are the saviors of this country have been in control in the last 60+ years more than the dems so why are the "current state of affairs" still so current?  Have the republicans not fixed the issue or are they part of the issue........, don't answer that, it is a rhetorical question.

[SMP63]

What I am getting at is this, if this "poem" does say something about our current state of affairs and it also said something about the then current state of affairs in 1949 (when the poem was written) then I think we can assume the current state of affairs has been going on for at least 60+ years but why?  The republicans acting as if they are the saviors of this country have been in control in the last 60+ years more than the dems so why are the "current state of affairs" still so current?  Have the republicans not fixed the issue or are they part of the issue........, don't answer that, it is a rhetorical question.

Rep. or Dem. isn't the problem. The problem is theres not term limits across the board!!!! There are PEOPLE spending their Entire careers up there 20,30,35 years & after so many years they forget that they are supposed to be representing we the people & doing whats best for us & start thinking whats best for them, making shady back room deals with big business, big oil, BIG MONEY!! Until theres term limits across the board this country will continue to be sold out. Were they thinking of the us when they gave Big Oil BILLIONS in tax breaks, were they thinking of us when they gave tax breaks for Big Company's to move their factories out of the country for example.  It's time to clear the 60,70,80 year old crusty geysers that have been in there for over 20 years & lost touch with the reality of the way it is out here & get some new faces in there that are in touch with what the real world is NOW like. Term limits would make it harder for BIG MONEY to crawl into their heads & pockets at least!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thats my opinion anyway. Like it or not!!!

[Anoriginal]

The poem, and its relation to the state of affairs today, has nothing to do with progression over time. Rather, it's indicative of the entitlement mentality more and more American's seem to be gloming onto. The current administration incubates this mentality and, in fact, encourages it.

Things are bad and they're only getting worse under the current administration. Their policies are failures both foreign and domestic. The economy is shrinking. The dollar keeps getting weaker. The housing market continues to fall. Banks continue to not loan. Welfare numbers continue to rise. The deficit has increased massively in just three short years (a larger increase than we've ever experienced). Unemployment is still abysmal and, cost of living items continue to rise in price while income continues to drop.

The truth of the matter is, it doesn't matter if you're a democrat, republican, liberal or conservative. The president, his actions, his policies and his cronies (both in the house and senate) have failed miserably. They've collectively made things worse for all of us.

When he won the election, I said that I supported him as the president and sincerely hoped he would make good on all of the promises he made during his campaign. Granted, I honestly didn't think he could do it however, I really hoped he would prove me wrong and make us all better of as a country. Unfortunately, my fears (and those of millions of Americans) came true. He's proving to be the absolute worst president we've ever had.

Again, it's not about political parties, socioeconomic standing or anything else the media tries to hype it as. Rather, it's about common sense and reality. When you look at reality from a common sense standpoint, things pretty much suck and, they're getting worse. I could care less who is in office, just so long as they do a good job for everyone. Our current president sure isn't doing it.

[FishaHallic]

Where are all these people with this "entitlement mentality ", I have never met one plus you add the fact that the normal unemployment rate to be around 5% tells me that this "entitlement mentality " does not really exist in large numbers like the republican party would like you to believe, sure there are some but the % is very small.  Now I am assuming that those with the "entitlement mentality " would not work because they are entitled to gov't help.

The only group that I see with a real "entitlement mentality " is corporations big and small, they are the ones asking for tax breaks, bail outs, gov't loans.  One would only have to look at some of the largest corporations like BIG OIL, they receive BILLIONS OF DOLLARS in tax breaks every year and yet every quarter they are making BILLIONS OF DOLLARS in profit, record setting profits.

I guess your saying Anoriginal that those record setting deficits have nothing to do with Obama being handed when he took office the worst recession since the great depression and the collapsing housing market and the dropping employment rate because if you remember the economy was in freefall when Obama took office.  Let's not forget the economic issues in Europe because all these things have affects on the deficit spending.  There are many economist that will tell you that if it was not for the deficit spending during this recession things would have been much, much worse because for a while there the gov't was one of the only entities spending.

[Anoriginal]

As to entitlement, you can start by looking at the OWS group and their list of demands. In addition, you can look to the vast numbers of welfare recipients that abuse the system as well as anyone who thinks they should share in profits and wealth not earned by them. Let's not be coy. We all know what we're dealing with when it comes to entitlement. Working or not, the entitlement mentality is a problem that is growing every day. It's the permeating attitude that "I'm owed something for doing nothing" that constitues the entitlement mentality.

Regarding unemployment, the current unemployment rate is slightly over 9%...not 5%. That's horrible. Especially when you take into account Obama's promises of jobs during his campaign. The unemployment rate hasn't been around 5% since before Obama took office.

Regarding corporations and tax breaks, what's your point? If it's such a problem, why hasn't this administration done anything about it? I mean, they had two full years of control over the house and senate and accomplished nothing but sending us all down the path of financial ruin.

On the deficit issue, the ship has long since sailed when it comes to trying to blame Bush for Obama's failures. Nobody is saying things were wonderful when Obama took office. In fact, when it comes to the housing crisis, it wouldn't have mattered who was in office. That mess was set in motion back in the mid 90's under Clinton.  However, the failure comes to light when you look at how this administration has dealt with things. In short, if you say that things were bad when he took office, he just made things exponentially worse.

Everyone knows that deficit spending can boost the economy. However, it's got to be done correctly. In Obama's case, it wasn't. His deficit spending was yet another catastrophic failure that only served to set us back in the long run.  Bailing out banks yet failing to lower the mark to market ratios so that they will loan again. failing to remove bid restrictions from infastructure funding so that the most qualified contractors will have a shot a getting projects. Subsidizing programs that bleed money in an effort to maintain a voter base. Pumping money into government backed mortgage saving plans that didn't do anythign or have any impact on the housing crisis while costing billions (for example, the HAFA and HAMP porgrams), The list goes on and on.

In the end, Obama's government backed stimulus funding only depreciated the dollar, and served to raise consumer prices. As a result, we're all paying more for every day things (like gas) while our income lags behind the rising price curve.

Again, he's a failure. His policies are failures both foreign and domestic. We're all worse off than before he took office and, he's only making sure we will hurt for decades to come. That's just the facts in today's world. I'm sad that he failed. It's bad for all of us. Only time will tell just how bad it is.

[trx#9]

Blaming the housing crisis on Clinton, nice one Matt. I don't remember no qualification loans and borrowing up to 150% of your home value until the Bush administration was in office. I bought my house in 2000 and had a tough time getting qualified and had to use a cosigner, during the Bush years all anyone had to make was minimum wage for a $200,000 dollar loan. 

I actually blame this whole mess on Reagan, look at any economic graph over the last 40 years and you'll see who started the barrowing era. 

[FishaHallic]

First off, I know what the unemployment rate is now, that is why I phrased my comment like this "normal unemployment rate to be around 5%", I am not talking about todays unemployment rate but say the average rate over the last 60 yrs give or take a percentage point.  My point still stands that this so called "entitlement mentality" does not really exist or only exist in a small portion of the population but it does exist in the world of big business and big money.

Sure Obama made promises that were not kept, like the unemployment rate, but so has every candidate and I MEAN EVERY CANDIDATE before him and to top it off no one knew how bad the economy really was or how far it was going to fall since this recession was unprecedented in its depth.

I am not trying to blame Bush (even though I think it is largely his and his parties fault) but I am making a point about the economy when Obama took office, no matter who was or is at fault at the time of the Obama inauguration, Obama was handed a pile of S*H*I*T for  a economy.  I am saying this pile did not start overnight and it won't be fixed overnight.

Could things be better............obviously the answer is YES, but in my opinion they could be worse and  all we have to do is look back into October of 2008 and see how bad things can get.


As far as your comments on foreign policy goes I will just say I disagree with you like I do with most of your comments as you disagree with mine.

[Anoriginal]

Blaming the housing crisis on Clinton, nice one Matt. I don't remember no qualification loans and borrowing up to 150% of your home value until the Bush administration was in office. I bought my house in 2000 and had a tough time getting qualified and had to use a cosigner, during the Bush years all anyone had to make was minimum wage for a $200,000 dollar loan.  

I actually blame this whole mess on Reagan, look at any economic graph over the last 40 years and you'll see who started the barrowing era.  

Erik, the NINJA ("no income no job application") loans started under Clinton and with his hard push with the Community Reinvestment Act. It was a creation of the Carter era actually. However, it wasn't until Clinton that the government took a hard line stance and losened regulations to allow Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac loans to underqualified individuals. Things hit a fevered pitch in the early Bush year. You will recall that Bush tried hard to get a regulatory board in place to watch over the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac loans (the loans that caused the mess) on numerous occasions. Unfortunately, his efforts were blocked time and time again by Barney Frank and Chris Dodd.

This mandate by the Clinton administration, combined with failure by the house and senate to implement an oversight agency relative to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (despite GWB's efforts early on in his presidency), caused the housing melt down. All sides agree on this issue. As for blaming Reagan, everyone has their own opinion on that. We could fill up an entire thread discussing it, I am sure. 

As for Fish and his comments, so be it. If you fail to admit to the obvious, that's your choice. And, things were much better (across the entire board) back in October 2008. Yet another fact. If you choose to ignore it, that's your choice.

[FishaHallic]

If you call an economy the was dropping like a ton of bricks better than a slow growing or even stagnant economy then that would by your choice but not mine.  Unemployment has stabilized and the economy is starting to grow admittedly slower then we all would like.  The housing market is still in turmoil and will be for some time and we are winding down 2 of 3 wars that Bush started.  All in all things are better now then they were in 2008 and that fact can't be missed.

Now let us all admit the real issue the republicans have is that here is a black man running our country, a black man that has reached across the isle many times but can't get any responce from a fearful republican house.  A republican house that has already said they hope Obama fails and they are doing everything in there power to see that he does.  We all know it is not about how Obama is running the country it is about "who" is running the country.

We have seen it many time with this republican culture, deficits were not an issue until Obama came to office, illegal immigration was not an issue until Obama came to office and the list goes on and on.  Obama did not raise taxes, he kept the Bush tax cuts but if you listened to the republicans you would think he is taxing everyone at 100%.  Obama did not weaken our military or our military might, he expanded the drone program and the target list and with great results, Obama did not open the borders for illegals, he has actually sent more border agents to the southern border and illegal immigration is down and the deportation of illegals is up.  Obama did not try to take away "our guns" he actually expanded gun rights. There is hardly an issue that republican bring up that they can back up with proof, most of there arguments are out right lies and distortions that are made to scare the old white men into contributions to the republican cause.

[trx#9]

They are all guilty in my eye's, big corporate lobbyist are in control of our once great country.

 We end lobbyist we solve our problems! 

[SMP63]

You guys just don't get it. You are all trying to point a finger @ one person who is to blame. The president is a puppet, lip service if you will!!! All he can do is make suggestions & try to do things He thinks are right for the country. If the house & senate Don't like it it goes nowhere.
Let me ask you this, of all the presidents you mentioned whats the only constant?  Let me make it easy for you. The members of the house & senate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! America has forgotten who truly runs this country & I'm sure they want it to stay that way!!!! Term limits across the board is the only way to fix this mess!!!!!! Until the Corrupt Career Politicions that don't have WE THE PEOPLES best interest are removed we have no hope. They are only concerned about BIG MONEYS interests!!!! That includes Rep. & Dem.
I don't care who the next president is its only going to continue to get worse.
TRX#9 you are more right than you know!!!!!!!!!

[FishaHallic]

I agree with most everything you say SMP63 but if you look who has tried to change the system out of the last 2 presidents then the answer is clear, Obama has tried to make changes and the republicans have blocked him almost every time.  Look at the republican candidates we have right now, Mitt who the republicans don't want but may get stuck with, Cain not a career politician but not a viable candidate either, Newt, a career politician who has spent his career getting paid by lobbyist and the very organizations the republican hate the most but yet it looks like it will be a toss up between Romney and the Newt. 

The republican hate change, just like they stick to the constition like it was perfect and no changes need be made and they are the same with the bible, they would have stoning to death of woman who cheat on their husbands if they thought they could get away with it.  It is clear to most who wants to change and it is not republicans, they like the way it is right now, this is how they make their living, political donations are up, lobbying is up, right wing talking heads are raking in millions so why change.  Remember I have always said that republicans would still be walking on all fours if it was financially benefiting.

[trx#9]

You guys just don't get it. You are all trying to point a finger @ one person who is to blame. The president is a puppet, lip service if you will!!! All he can do is make suggestions & try to do things He thinks are right for the country. If the house & senate Don't like it it goes nowhere.
Let me ask you this, of all the presidents you mentioned whats the only constant? let me make it easy for you. The members of the house & senate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! America has forgotten who truly runs this country & I'm sure they want it to stay that way!!!! Term limits across the board is the only way to fix this mess!!!!!! Until the Corrupt Career Politicions that don't have WE THE PEOPLES best interest are removed we have no hope. They are only concerned about BIG MONEYS interests!!!! That includes Rep. & Dem.
I don't care who the next president is its only going to continue to get worse.
TRX#9 you are more right than you know!!!!!!!!!

Thank you sir! Your right on as well. But we both know nothing will change, unless millions of American's all march to the capital and ransack the government buildings. 

[Anoriginal]

They are all guilty in my eye's, big corporate lobbyist are in control of our once great country.

 We end lobbyist we solve our problems!  

I couldn't agree with you more.  

Fish, none of what you posted makes sense. Sorry my friend but you're just totally incorrect on more fronts than I have time to show. Based upon your history here, I'll not try to convince you otherwise. It's a waste of my time.

SMP, I agree with you as well. Term limits is the key starting point. You cannot make politics a life long career path and expect people to not take advantage of the situation at the expense of taxpayers. Members of the legislative branch live under a different set of rules than the rest of us. Apply the same rules to everyone (including them) and implement term limits and real reform will begin.

[FishaHallic]

I agree you may think I am incorrect just like I think you are incorrect on your "facts" and assumptions and I will no more change my mind then you will.  We are at an impasse,  oh what to do?  Next thread please!!!!   

[Anoriginal]

Here Fish. I will leave this thread with the following actual facts. All are verified and can be checked out with a few strokes of your keyboard.

Here is a list of 20 ways we're worse off now that Obama is in office.

#1 In January 2009, the official U.S. unemployment rate was 7.6 percent.  Today it is 9.1 percent.

#2 When Barack Obama took office, the number of "long-term unemployed" in the United States was approximately 2.6 million.  Today, that number is up to 6.2 million.

#3 When Barack Obama first became president, the average price of a gallon of gasoline in the United States was $1.83.  Today it is $3.29.  This also affects the price of almost everything else that we buy.

#4 In April 2009, the average U.S. household spent approximately $201 on gasoline.  In April 2011, the average U.S. household spent approximately $369 on gasoline.

#5 According to an article in the Daily Mail, the cost of a Memorial Day cookout was 29 percent higher this year than it was last year.

#6 When Barack Obama was sworn in, there were nearly 32 million Americans on food stamps.  Today, there are more than 44 million on food stamps.

#7 According to the U.S. Census, the number of children living in poverty has gone up by about 2 million in just the past 2 years.

#8 When Barack Obama took office, the U.S. national debt was 10.6 trillion dollars.  Today it is 15.06 trillion dollars.

#9 The federal government has borrowed 29,660 more dollars per household since Barack Obama signed the economic stimulus law two years ago.

#10 During Barack Obama's first two years in office, the U.S. government added more to the U.S. national debt than the first 100 U.S. Congresses combined.

#11 The combined debt of the major GSEs (Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and Sallie Mae) has increased from 3.2 trillion in 2008 to 6.4 trillion in 2011.  

#12 Under Obama, the U.S. trade deficit continues to grow.  The trade deficit was about 33 percent larger in 2010 than it was in 2009, and the 2011 trade deficit is expected to be even bigger.

#13 Only 66.8% of American men had a job last year.  That was the lowest level that has ever been recorded in all of U.S. history.

#14 Just since August, 2 million more Americans have left the labor force.

#15 In 2010, more than a million U.S. families lost their homes to foreclosure for the first time ever, and that number is expected to go even higher in 2011.

#16 The U.S. real estate crisis just continues to get worse.  During the first three months of this year, less new homes were sold in the U.S. than in any three month period ever recorded.

#17 The U.S. dollar has fallen by 17 percent compared to other major national currencies since 2009.

#18 Faith in the U.S. dollar and in U.S. Treasuries is rapidly declining.  The mainstream news is not reporting on it much, but right now the Chinese are rapidly dumping U.S. government debt.  

#19 When Barack Obama first took office, an ounce of gold was going for about $850.  Today an ounce of gold costs about $1500.

#20 Americans seem to be more pessimistic about the economy than ever.  According to a brand new poll, 61 percent of Americans believe that they will not return to their "pre-recession" lifestyles until at least 2014.

[trx#9]

Matt, if i shoot you with a gun but you don't die from it until a month later is it still my fault then?   

[Anoriginal]

Matt, if i shoot you with a gun but you don't die from it until a month later is it still my fault then?   

Erik, I know what point you're trying to make. I get it. However, the time for blaming predecessors is over.

The point many people miss is that things are not getting better under the current administration. Things are in fact, getting worse. Much worse. Just about everything this administration's done has backfired and made America weaker.

Everyone knows the economy wasn't peachy when Obama took office. Everyone agrees the Bush administration made mistakes as did every administration before it. Everyone knows the housing market had already crashed. Everyone knows the deficit was $10 trillion...and so on. But, Obama promised change. Obama promised things would get better. He promised us all that his policies would carry us toward a stronger economy. A stronger America.

Instead of delivering on any of these promises, he and his policies (yes, I recognize that its the legislative branch that implements policy) have taken us further down the tubes. Its as if we were on the edge of a cliff when he took office. All he's done is load our pants with rocks, strapped a rocket to our backs pointed at the valley floor and lit the fuse.

It doesn't matter who is in office. Republican or democrat. (The notion that there is an issue over Obama due to his race is childish, immature and down right moronic.) When you look at his performance, it is abysmal. If he were a white, male ultra conservative, the numbers would still be abysmal. It's one thing to slow the bleeding that was taking place when he took office. It's entirely another to open the wound wider which, is what he's done and continues to do.

But, let me cast blame on both sides. It's no secret that Obama and his ilk controlled the house and senate during the first two years of his presidency and accomplished nothing of value to the American people. that's just a fact. However, the hard line republicans that took office in midterm elections haven't helped things either. Granted, I must say that Obama and his ilk continue to turn their backs on any ideas coming from the republicans...just because they come from a republican. However, the conservatives aren't extending their hand in peace, any more than the democrats. Both sides are hypocrites in this aspect.

I've said it before and I will say it again, it's not about being affiliated with any one party. It's about being a tax paying American and seeing our elected politicians (all of them) fail us miserably. Right now, the failure is epic and being exacerbated by the current administration to no end.