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Author Topic: Anyone reading about the Everglades Headwater Proposal?  (Read 107038 times)
gladesman
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« Reply #100 on: February 26, 2011, 06:29:25 AM »

I saw it and notified a few others of the upcoming bag of tricks from a corrupt government and their Partners.

Government may be too nice of a word to describe these folks.

Oh wait a minute, they're not the government they're the bureaucracy.

Thanks for the post
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gladesman
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« Reply #101 on: March 02, 2011, 10:03:26 PM »

Looks like the stage is being set for a modified strategy to convince us how great Headwaters will be but maybe it won't convince many who are aware of the facts related to this Federal intrusion.

Underlining or bold below by Gladesman

Here are some interesting recent emails including one from FWC director Nick Wiley:

*************** ***********************

To:Nick Wiley Nick.Wiley@myfwc.com

c.c. "LyleMcCandless@aol.com" <LyleMcCandless@aol.com>, "paul_souza@fws.gov" <paul_souza@fws.gov>, "aaron@woodsnwater.net" <aaron@woodsnwater.net>, "captfrankadams@aol.com" <captfrankadams@aol.com>, "info@ussportsmen.org" <info@ussportsmen.org>, "gmwilson8@embarqmail.com" <gmwilson8@embarqmail.com>, "i.armengol@worldnet.att.net" <i.armengol@worldnet.att.net>, "buckcrest@aol.com" <buckcrest@aol.com>, "cbarley9203@embarqmail.com" <cbarley9203@embarqmail.com>, "rodney@thebarretogroup.com" <rodney@thebarretogroup.com>, "bbarry@shutts.com" <bbarry@shutts.com>, "donrbarton@yahoo.com" <donrbarton@yahoo.com>, "capital.ideas@att.net" <capital.ideas@att.net>, "bcsalliance@aol.com" <bcsalliance@aol.com>, "bmason@fmc-slc.com" <bmason@fmc-slc.com>, "chokobryan@yahoo.com" <chokobryan@yahoo.com>, "jim.casselman@lmco.com" <jim.casselman@lmco.com>, "dcharland@trcintl.com" <dcharland@trcintl.com>, "wclark88@aol.com" <wclark88@aol.com>, "kyclk20@aol.com" <kyclk20@aol.com>, "jimcoletta@colliergov.net" <jimcoletta@colliergov.net>, "Collins, Chuck" <Chuck.Collins@myfwc.com>, FWC Commissioners <commissioners@myfwc.com>, "newtoncook@bellsouth.net" <newtoncook@bellsouth.net>, "patsydcooper@yahoo.com" <patsydcooper@yahoo.com>, "Morea, Cory" <Cory.Morea@myfwc.com>, "mike@swampbuggiesfl.com" <mike@swampbuggiesfl.com>, "davisw@windstream.net" <davisw@windstream.net>, "sdeline@abengineering.net" <sdeline@abengineering.net>, "spur0920@gmail.com" <spur0920@gmail.com>, "dudley4pack@aol.com" <dudley4pack@aol.com>, "huntmstr@tampabay.rr.com" <huntmstr@tampabay.rr.com>, "Eggeman, Diane" <Diane.Eggeman@myfwc.com>, "mikeelf96@aol.com" <mikeelf96@aol.com>, "elsid65@hotmail.com" <elsid65@hotmail.com>, "lovingairboats@gmail.com" <lovingairboats@gmail.com>, "DFleshler@sun-sentinel.com" <DFleshler@sun-sentinel.com>, "mikeford@fbclp.com" <mikeford@fbclp.com>, "NWTF.org/florida@aol.com" <NWTF.org/florida@aol.com>, "manleyfuller@comcast.net" <manleyfuller@comcast.net>, "jgarc137@fiu.edu" <jgarc137@fiu.edu>, "karl_greer@fpl.com" <karl_greer@fpl.com>, "jpg2esq@gmail.com" <jpg2esq@gmail.com>, "bushwagon@aol.com" <bushwagon@aol.com>, "cypresshunter99@yahoo.com" <cypresshunter99@yahoo.com>, "cathenson@comcast.net" <cathenson@comcast.net>, "matt.hudson@myfloridahouse.gov" <matt.hudson@myfloridahouse.gov>, "jadon.hull@aimengr.com" <jadon.hull@aimengr.com>, "jkh1212@gmail.com" <jkh1212@gmail.com>, "wayjen2500@msn.com" <wayjen2500@msn.com>, "abcs4578@hotmail.com" <abcs4578@hotmail.com>, "cfkearse11@tampabay.rr.com" <cfkearse11@tampabay.rr.com>, "corporatekim@bergeroninc.com" <corporatekim@bergeroninc.com>, "Looprd@aol.com" <Looprd@aol.com>, "ktuck15@hotmail.com" <ktuck15@hotmail.com>, "legom2@yahoo.com" <legom2@yahoo.com>, "bokeelia@ymail.com" <bokeelia@ymail.com>, "bdmaharrey@yahoo.com" <bdmaharrey@yahoo.com>, "marcoe@prodigy.net" <marcoe@prodigy.net>, "wecmnwtf@yahoo.com" <wecmnwtf@yahoo.com>, "JMccand402@aol.com" <JMccand402@aol.com>, "larrymccandless@windstream.net" <larrymccandless@windstream.net>, "dmccarty16@aol.com" <dmccarty16@aol.com>, "10point2010@gmail.com" <10point2010@gmail.com>, "cmogelvang@earthlink.net" <cmogelvang@earthlink.net>, "LJMoller@aol.com" <LJMoller@aol.com>, "cmorehead@moodyjones.com" <cmorehead@moodyjones.com>, "james.mullen@myfloridahouse.gov" <james.mullen@myfloridahouse.gov>, "murphystruck@bellsouth.net" <murphystruck@bellsouth.net>, "joepalandro@reeforrack.com" <joepalandro@reeforrack.com>, "Ross, Perran" <Perran.Ross@myfwc.com>, "barjnpwll@aol.com" <barjnpwll@aol.com>, "puch@bellsouth.net" <puch@bellsouth.net>, "robert4570@aol.com" <robert4570@aol.com>, "pross@ufl.edu" <pross@ufl.edu>, "craigrucker@gmail.com" <craigrucker@gmail.com>, "RVT4FST@aol.com" <RVT4FST@aol.com>, "scimiamichapter.com@aol.com" <scimiamichapter.com@aol.com>, "rick.scott@eog.myflorida.com" <rick.scott@eog.myflorida.com>, "crazydaveiii@yahoo.com" <crazydaveiii@yahoo.com>, "racedone@aol.com" <racedone@aol.com>, "smyking@cs.com" <smyking@cs.com>, "robertaamende@gmail.com" <robertaamende@gmail.com>, "saveourhardwoods@hotmail.com" <saveourhardwoods@hotmail.com>, "paulasprings@colliergov.net" <paulasprings@colliergov.net>, "estaats@naplesnews.com" <estaats@naplesnews.com>, "pereger1@gmail.com" <pereger1@gmail.com>, "gestephens@twlakes.net" <gestephens@twlakes.net>, "JohnS@ocillarealty.com" <JohnS@ocillarealty.com>, "lane@scggov.com" <lane@scggov.com>, "sloughfootcreek@aol.com" <sloughfootcreek@aol.com>, "thomas_strickland@ios.doi.gov" <thomas_strickland@ios.doi.gov>, "RVT4FST@centurylink.net" <RVT4FST@centurylink.net>, "brigittetaylor@yahoo.com" <brigittetaylor@yahoo.com>, "mtaylor@barneswalker.com" <mtaylor@barneswalker.com>, "t7top@aol.com" <t7top@aol.com>, "kasont@embarqmail.com" <kasont@embarqmail.com>, "lswjth2@yahoo.com" <lswjth2@yahoo.com>, "wildfed@gmail.com" <wildfed@gmail.com>, "junebd29@aol.com" <junebd29@aol.com>, "woodshed1979@aol.com" <woodshed1979@aol.com>, "bishopwright@bellsouth.net" <bishopwright@bellsouth.net>, "David, Dennis" <dennis.david@myfwc.com>, "Wynn, Chris" <Chris.Wynn@myfwc.com>, "Mark Musaus (Mark_Musaus@fws.gov)" <Mark_Musaus@fws.gov>, "Charlie_Pelizza@fws.gov" <Charlie_Pelizza@fws.gov>, "Holder, Greg" <greg.holder@myfwc.com>, Senator Marco Rubio <casework@rubio.senate.gov>, "Monica Aranegui (COLLIER)" <monica.aranegui@mail.house.gov>, "Miguel Otero (DADE)" <Miguel.Otero@mail.house.gov>


On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 4:55 PM, frank <gladesman@gmail.com> wrote:


Hello Nick,

I appreciate your acknowledgement at this early a point in the process that "we may not be able to work this out exactly as Mr.Moller proposed".

From what I am seeing and hearing opposition is growing and will continue to grow in spite of Mr. Mollers premature compromise proposal due to many citizens distrust of and lack of faith in State as well as Federal land management entities abilities to accomodate their needs due to unavoidable Federal mandates (e.g. laws, executive orders etc.) not to mention the projected $700,000,000 cost of this 1st of 4 phases.

The closest land classification I recently learned of that USFWS has to accomodate what Mr. Moller alludes to is a "coordination area" (of which USFWS's description is attached or at link http://www.fws.gov/refuges/about/coordareas.html ) which only affords State agencies "nearly full jurisdiction" which will not be acceptable to many who truly understand the Federal ramifications within this issue. An alternate term used for a USFWS "coordination areas" is "wildlife management area" which USFWS specifies in the attached document is still part of the Refuge system irregardless. That relationship is directly parallel to the Big Cypress National Preserves relationship with National Parks properties -- and we all know where that leads. In case we have forgotten it leads to protection of Wilderness characteristics as per the USFWS planning overview attached or at this link http://www.fws.gov/policy/602fw1.html at item 1.5 H, and the promise of Wilderness recommendation at a minimum as per the Headwaters proposal at pg 21 Section XIV.

I applaud Mr. Mollers efforts but must agree with you Nick, that they are not exactly possible.

Best Regards,

Frank P.S. Please find Mr. Moller's suggestion to USFWS pasted below:

**************** **************** *******************

2-27-11

Mark J. Musaus
Deputy Regional Director
Fish and Wildlife Service
Southeast Region
404-679-4000

Mark

Good morning

I am one who always looks for solutions.

I know you have not had time to digest and develop a meaningful response to the numerous issues and questions I sent you this week. I look forward the agency's response.

I also do not believe the agency will be able to change its history, its culture and attitude about hunting in S FL.

Not wanting to lose this opportunity to help land rich-cash poor landowners and wanting to protect habitat I have a solution.

This solution will hinge on the true motives of the USFWS reasons for wanting to take control of 150,000 acres in central FL. If the agency's true purpose is to protect habitat then it will do what I am about to recommend.

However, if the true goals of the agency is something else; to build a larger agency, more land means more money means more people and to control more of FL then it will turn down this suggestion.

I am suggesting the USFWS grant the $700,000,000 to the FL Fish Wildlife and Conservation Commission (FWC). The FWC currently manages many more acres than the USFWS and is doing an great job. Currently the FWC is the only agency that has legal been charged by the FL Constitution to manage all wildlife in FL. Currently the FWC will have to do most of the management activities on the lands the USFWS wants to purchase and or control.

I also know the Governor of FL, the FWC Commissioners and staff understand that such money comes with a granting document. This document hides the rules, the words, that direct the FWC how to spend and use the money given it by the Federal Government. I would encourage the state not to accept any money in which these rules give the Federal Government and any of its agencies over sight of the management of these lands. The only direction and requirement in the granting document for the use of this money must be the funds can only be used to purchase in fee or via easement with the yet to determined boundaries of the area understudy.

In my opinion most opposition will stop if you give this money to the FWC under such rules.

What is the real reason the USFWS/Federal Government wants this land? To protect habitat or build a bigger agency?

I know some green groups will not like this as they are really federalist at heart but other conservation groups will support such and action.

Jack Moller




On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Wiley, Nick <Nick.Wiley@myfwc.com> wrote:

Hello Lyle. On behalf of FWC Commissioners and staff, we sincerely appreciate the respect and trust you place in our agency. We do not take this for granted and will continue to work hard to support the interests and needs of Florida Sportsmen and hunters. It is my understanding that Charlie Pelizza with the USFWS is coordinating the scoping process for the Everglades Headwaters Refuge proposal. I have copied him on this email. I believe he would be the most appropriate representative of the USFWS to respond rather than Paul Souza. Also, please note that we have advised the USFWS that we are open to creative partnerships that would address concerns you and others continue to express regarding the new refuge concept. This is one of the major reasons we would like to stay engaged and work through this process with the USFWS. I do believe they are considering this input very seriously. We also appreciate the constructive ideas and alternatives provided by Jack Moller. We may not be able to work this out exactly as Jack has proposed, but his input will certainly help us explore options. Thank you for your interest and input. Take care. Nick



Nick Wiley

Executive Director

Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission

Office Phone (850) 487-3796

FAX (850) 921-5786

Please visit our website at the following link:

Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission

************************* ****************************

From: LyleMcCandless@aol.com [mailto:LyleMcCandless@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 2:48 PM
To: Wiley, Nick; paul_souza@fws.gov; aaron@woodsnwater.net; captfrankadams@aol.com; info@ussportsmen.org; gmwilson8@embarqmail.com; i.armengol@worldnet.att.net; buckcrest@aol.com; cbarley9203@embarqmail.com; rodney@thebarretogroup.com; bbarry@shutts.com; donrbarton@yahoo.com; capital.ideas@att.net; bcsalliance@aol.com; bmason@fmc-slc.com; chokobryan@yahoo.com; jim.casselman@lmco.com; dcharland@trcintl.com; wclark88@aol.com; kyclk20@aol.com; jimcoletta@colliergov.net; Collins, Chuck; FWC Commissioners; newtoncook@bellsouth.net; patsydcooper@yahoo.com; Morea, Cory; mike@swampbuggiesfl.com; davisw@windstream.net; sdeline@abengineering.net; Gladesman@gmail.com; spur0920@gmail.com; dudley4pack@aol.com; huntmstr@tampabay.rr.com; Eggeman, Diane; mikeelf96@aol.com; elsid65@hotmail.com; lovingairboats@gmail.com; DFleshler@sun-sentinel.com; mikeford@fbclp.com; NWTF.org/florida@aol.com; manleyfuller@comcast.net; jgarc137@fiu.edu; karl_greer@fpl.com; jpg2esq@gmail.com; bushwagon@aol.com; cypresshunter99@yahoo.com; cathenson@comcast.net; matt.hudson@myfloridahouse.gov; jadon.hull@aimengr.com; jkh1212@gmail.com; wayjen2500@msn.com; abcs4578@hotmail.com; cfkearse11@tampabay.rr.com; corporatekim@bergeroninc.com; Looprd@aol.com; ktuck15@hotmail.com; legom2@yahoo.com; bokeelia@ymail.com; bdmaharrey@yahoo.com; marcoe@prodigy.net; wecmnwtf@yahoo.com; JMccand402@aol.com; larrymccandless@windstream.net; lylemccandless@aol.com; dmccarty16@aol.com; 10point2010@gmail.com; cmogelvang@earthlink.net; LJMoller@aol.com; cmorehead@moodyjones.com; james.mullen@myfloridahouse.gov; murphystruck@bellsouth.net; joepalandro@reeforrack.com; Ross, Perran; barjnpwll@aol.com; puch@bellsouth.net; robert4570@aol.com; pross@ufl.edu; craigrucker@gmail.com; RVT4FST@aol.com; scimiamichapter.com@aol.com; rick.scott@eog.myflorida.com; crazydaveiii@yahoo.com; racedone@aol.com; smyking@cs.com; robertaamende@gmail.com; saveourhardwoods@hotmail.com; paulasprings@colliergov.net; estaats@naplesnews.com; pereger1@gmail.com; gestephens@twlakes.net; JohnS@ocillarealty.com; lane@scggov.com; sloughfootcreek@aol.com; thomas_strickland@ios.doi.gov; RVT4FST@centurylink.net; brigittetaylor@yahoo.com; mtaylor@barneswalker.com; t7top@aol.com; kasont@embarqmail.com; lswjth2@yahoo.com; wildfed@gmail.com; junebd29@aol.com; woodshed1979@aol.com; bishopwright@bellsouth.net
Subject: Headwaters Reserve Proposal



March 2 2011



Nick Wiley and Paul Souza:



In a letter to you dated Feb. 27 2011 I express my support for Jack Moller's solution to the Headwaters Reserve situation. Since I didn't receive an immediate response I chose to take that as a positive indication that you are taking the time to carefully consider this completely proper solution to the problem. Attached is Jack's letter and my support letter.



With the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission in ownership and full control you can expect solid support from the public and stakeholders. The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conversation Commission has gained the respect and trust of the public and stakeholders by conducting business in a fair and proper way by truly involving the public in the process. To put it simply the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission is the only friend the Sportsmen and hunters have in the state of Florida.



On the other hand the Federal Agencies including the USFWS, National Park Service, Water Management and others have alienated the public and stakeholders by doing business in a manner geared more toward a desired result as opposed to doing what is fair and proper in behalf of the citizens of Florida. As a result of this alienation of trust in Federal Agencies you can expect an unprecedented push back from the public and stakeholders against the Headwaters Reserve Project as currently proposed.

With Great Hope,

Lyle McCandless

Native Floridian

Pres. BCSA

Member DMTAG


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renmus
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« Reply #102 on: March 02, 2011, 10:36:07 PM »

Thanks for sharing.
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gladesman
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« Reply #103 on: March 02, 2011, 11:12:28 PM »

Renmus try to also share your knowledge of this bad idea with every person you know and get them to comment to USFWS and mycommissioners@fwc.com now that they are on the record working with USFWS that both of them should only support the NO ACTION ALTERNATIVE when and IF it ever sees the light of day..
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« Reply #104 on: March 03, 2011, 07:01:18 AM »

I just heard yesterday on the radio (npr) that a wind farm will be coming to central Florida, I wonder if the land being proposed is for this project?  I wonder whose greasy hands are involved and dont doubt the land will end up for this project. 
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« Reply #105 on: March 03, 2011, 10:35:18 AM »

Don'tknow anything about a wind farm but Congratulations to you for listening to Nat'l Public Radio (NPR). We can all learn a lot by doing that and even participate in their talk shows once in a while to support our off road activities.
When I was a lot younger I used to scoff news radio in general and NPR in particular but not anymore.
Gladesman
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« Reply #106 on: March 04, 2011, 11:41:16 PM »

Woods N Water, March issue, page 69 article on Chassahowitzka Refuge for FWC, USFWS and FDOF mis-management of nature.

Most who are aware of Headwaters probably wonder why Fla's. Fish and Wildlife Commission and Div of Forestry came out in support of this monster so soon.

I can't answer that but I can direct folks where to go and read about another such unholy alliance/partneship between these three mousketeers. It involves another USFWS Chassahowitzka Refuge/ ? FWC? (WMA) in Hernando County.

Get a copy of the March edition (better yet subscribe to) Woods N Waters magazine the best publication about hunting and fishing I've ever read.

When u get it go to page 69 and read how these 3 (FWC, USFWS and FDOF under newly ELECTED 1-tIME Adam Putnam) mousketeers are putting noithing less than a holocaust upon the oak trees and other hardwoods there that wildlife need for cover and food sources. Apparently the mousketeers have unilaterally declared the hardwoods as invasive exotics (possibly USING THE AUTHORITY THEY RECEIVED WHEN THE Invasive Species Working Group -ISWG- was created) and are clearing them out of the 33,000 acre so called (WMA).

Why did I say so-called WMA you ask? WMA means one thing to most if not all of us in Florida and that is a Wildlife Managament Area with Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission in charge. Guess again in the case of Chassahowitzka maybe we Floridians have been tricked into believing that the same way we may be tricked in Everglades Headwaters.

During my research regarding Headwaters I discovered the USFWS description of a land classification they call "coordination area" (at this link http://www.fws.gov/refuges/about/coordareas.html ) that allows States nearly full jurisdiction. In that USFWS description attached they mention "coordination areas" are also referred to as "conservation areas".

I mention this as a possiblity because while doing research for Headwaters I learned that the Feds (USFWS) have refuges seemingly run by States that in reality are not.

These refuges by law can legally referred coordination areas, conservation areas or low and behold as per this link  http://cfr.vlex.com/vid/25-12-what-these-terms-mean-19893650    to the legal definition of a "coordination area" the term wildlife management areas is leagl to use.

Let's make sure we don't get tricked by the tricky Dicky terminilogy that will soon be used on us.

Be alert for the Everglades Headwaters RED FLAG terms "coordination area", "conservation area" and "wildlife management area" whenever you hear them from the government concerning Headwaters.

We will need to demand a written confirmation verifying whether the WMA in question is a State or Federal WMA.

NO more trusting a handshake from anyone State or Federal. We learned that in 1974 in the Big Cypress and it don't work.

Gladesman


« Last Edit: March 05, 2011, 12:08:00 AM by gladesman » Logged
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« Reply #107 on: March 12, 2011, 03:38:25 PM »

Call These Elected Officials - NOW
They need to hear the 11 reasons to choose the NO ACTION ALTERNATIVE

NWR - Headwaters Elected Officials Contact List
These folks represent constituents in the Headwaters study area.
Many phone calls to these elected officials need to be made to explain the down side of this bad idea.
 
US Senators

(Bill Nelson )

Washington DC ph 202 224 5474

West Palm Beach ph 561 514 0189

Miami ph 305 536 5999

Orlando ph 407 872 7161



(Marco Rubio)

Washington DC ph 202 224 3041

Miami ph 305 418 8553

Orlando ph 407 254 2573


US Congressmen


(Dennis Ross) email ross.house.gov

Washington DC 202 225 1252

Lakeland 863 644 8215



(Bill Posey) email posey.house.gov

Washington DC ph 202 225 3671

Melbourne ph 321 632 1776



(Tom Rooney) email rooney.house.gov

Washington DC 202 225 5792

Fort Pierce 772 288 4668


State Senators


President of Fla Senate

Senator (Mike Haridopolos)

Tallahassee ph 850 487 5056

Melbourne ph 321 752 3131


Senator( JD Alexander)

Tallahassee ph 850 487 5044

Lake Wales ph 863 679 4847


State Representatives


(Ms Denise Grimsley) Dist 77

Tallahassee ph 850 488 3457

Sebring ph 863 385 5251


(Matt Hudson ) Dist 101

Tallahassee 850 488 1028

Naples 239 417 6270


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« Reply #108 on: March 12, 2011, 07:39:58 PM »

FWS is writing the report as if the people who got up and went to these meetings wasted time. 

http://www.fws.gov/southeast/greatereverglades/pdf/20110310SummaryofComments.pdf

Do not let THEM get away with this cheap trick!  Keep the cards and letters going to all Federal and State reps  Grin
« Last Edit: March 12, 2011, 07:59:38 PM by renmus » Logged
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« Reply #109 on: March 13, 2011, 04:08:24 PM »

Another cheap trick can be reviewed on the Blue Ribbon Coalition site.  Call it a Wild Land and bypass Congress altogether!!!
http://www.sharetrails.org/public-lands/?section=salazar_order
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« Reply #110 on: March 19, 2011, 02:21:48 AM »

Land speculators and cattle elite are well positioned to fleece taxpayers in a big way in Headwaters so called enviro-protection project. This link shows a prelude as to what will come to a few folks while most others just pay to make a few richer http://www2.highlandstoday.com/content/2011/mar/15/blue-head-got-34-million-from-feds/

Maybe we should organize a ride to inspect some of the property our money is invested in now so as to make sure all the new rules are being followed to the letter of the conservation easement. Trust me they don't figure we are capable of doing it but we could. Similar actions have stopped many NPS objectives for years really pissing them off.

Possibly the first ride should be to Blue Head Ranch so we can all Thank Fl Senator JD Alexander personally for his magnamous selflessness in protecting Florida's environment. I'm sure the other 34,400,000 reasons only had a minor bearing on his decision making
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« Reply #111 on: March 19, 2011, 11:23:30 AM »

Yeah, and let's ask those so-called ranches/ranchers/Lykes Bros. how many jobs they've created with those taxpayer monies!
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« Reply #112 on: March 19, 2011, 11:07:31 PM »

Ok  I  just  spent  way  to long  on  a  Sat  nite reading  all  this   Now  Iam  a  land owner  out  a  Suburban Estates   and  the  SEPOA  has  been  talking  about  this  on  our board   Suburbanestates.net I  came   over  here   cto  seee  what  yall  are  saying  and  it  pretty much  all  the  same   but  you  guys  have  a  lot  more  activity. What  is  the  time  frame  on  this  do  we  have  a  chance in  hell  or  are  they
just   gonna  use  smoke  and  mirrors  and  screw  us all  ?  I  cant  see  them  buying  up  all  the  land  from  192 and  441   all  the  way  to  lake  okeechobee  then  what bulldoze  all  the   little  communities   all  on  the  way ?Please  dont  cuss  me  and   but  rather  educate  me  How  are  they  gonna  do  this  SE is a  little  differnt  than  RR   as  we built  camps  on  our  property   but  I  still  am  lost   
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« Reply #113 on: March 20, 2011, 12:52:09 PM »

I am going to say we always have a chance.  Public Scoping comments are open until March 31.  Make sure to contact MORE than the FWS regarding this proposal.  Contact each and every public official you can think of.  In Florida, in Washington as well as other states.  The agency is very flip about saying that Congress will fund any shortfall to this proposal.  It is our job to make sure Congress knows that as American citizens and taxpayers we feel our tax dollars are spent on wiser investments.  Please make sure to stop by the FWS propoganda website http://www.fws.gov/southeast/greatereverglades/

AintSkeered,  I understand where you are going with your comment.  I do have to say that Lykes is a heavy employer in the state however.
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« Reply #114 on: March 21, 2011, 11:29:42 PM »

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2011/mar/21/rubio-posey-to-speak-during-indian-river-tea-in/

Lets go talk to them in person
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« Reply #115 on: March 22, 2011, 01:13:17 AM »

Another chance to tell USFWS and elected officials what we think of Headwaters.

Meeting time 10:00am on March 25, 2011 located in Judge William L. Hendry Courtroom at 304 NW 2nd Street in Okeechobee Fl. 34972

This meeting includes representation from 10 Fl counties that need to hear exactly how we feel about Headwaters.

Charlie Pelizza will be there which means we need to be there.

Ernie Barnett from SFWMD will be giving a presentation. Who is he u ask? He is a person who was instrumental in having sovereignty removed from Picayune Strand in Collier county years ago. This character actually admitted to me in front of witnesses that he knew what he did in Picayune was treason but that there was so much money available that it made sense. If he is involved in Headwaters the same type stunt will be attempted. This excuse for an American is way more dangerous than Charlie Pelizza.

This is sort of short notice but folks need to be here. Folks will have 3 minutes to blast them. Let's be sure to take this oppurtunity to do it.

Gladesman

 
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« Reply #116 on: March 22, 2011, 08:17:27 AM »

I was there with you when he admitted this at the Collier county commissioners meeting. I will do my very best to be there and remind that scum bag in front of everyone.
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« Reply #117 on: March 23, 2011, 07:11:16 PM »

FWC still seems to be under the illision that hunters will bite on the hunting bone being offered and quit opposing the Headwaters. WRONG PERCEPTION. Headwaters is a bad idea for more reasons than hunting.

Even if hunting were a viable bone let's review FWC's recent comments to USFWS about the Headwaters.

In their comments FWC mentions a couple of times that hunters want more "quality hunting areas". Big unanswered question is "Who decides what quality hunting is"? To some such as myself that might hinge on an area not requiring quota permit hoops to be jumped through in order to hunt a place. The odds now on some WMA's is once in about 60 years of being drawn. Sorry, those junk odds aren't acceptable anywhere anymore.

If FWC wants hunting to be a viable goal in Headwaters Refuge "fee simple areas" they need to skip the quota permit system as their micro management tool that keeps folks out. The area would need to be run as the Public Use Area (PUA) along the Kissimmee in the region. I wonder how far that idea would fly today.

It is also sad to see that FWC lacked the courage to call USFWS out concerning their gobbldygook convoluted language at pg 21 of their project proposal that attempted to hide their promise of Wilderness recommendation. My belief is that by now especially after the whooping they took in the Addition Lands by NPS that FWC fully understands what USFWS words meant. Rather than back we sportsmen who discovered this USFWS stunt the best FWC could do in their comments was to refer to our concerns without directly backing us up using the weight of the agency. FWC's statement near the end saying they would adamantly oppose Wilderness is meaningless since it is not within their jurisdiction to prevent it once the ball begins rolling whether in Headwaters the Addition or anywhere else. The only way to prevent Wilderness recommendation and the crap that comes with it is to prevent Federal authority from happening period. Anyone who doesn't believe this better go get educated. FWC already knows this and is disenguine not to put it in their comments to USFWS.

Another worrisome FWC omission is the mention of off road vehicle access into any supposed Refuge. Hmmmm!!

FWC Comments:

Fish
and Wildlife
Conservation
Commission
Commissioners
Rodney Barreto
Chairman
Miami
Richard A. Corbett
Vice Chairman
Tampa
Kathy Barco
Jacksonville
Ronald M. Bergeron
Fort Lauderdale
Dwight Stephenson
Delray Beach
Kenneth W. Wright
Winter Park
Brian S. Yablonski
Tallahassee
Executive Staff
Nick Wiley
Executive Director
Greg Holder
Assistant Executive Director
Karen Ventimiglia
Deputy Chief of Staff
Managing fish and wildlife
resources for their long-term
well-being and the benefit
of people.
620 South Meridian Street
Tallahassee, Florida
32399-1600
Voice: (850) 488-4676
Hearing/speech impaired:
(800) 955-8771 (T)
(800) 955-8770 (V)
MyFWC.com
Office of the
Executive Director
Nick Wiley
Executive Director
(850) 487-3796
(850) 921-5786 FAX
March 14, 2011
Ms. Lauren P. Milligan
Florida State Clearinghouse
Florida Department of Environmental Protection
3900 Commonwealth Boulevard, M.S. 47
Tallahassee, FL 32399-3000

Lauren.Milligan@dep.state.fl.us

Re: Scoping Notice: Greater Everglades Partnership Initiative, SAI #FL201101195612, Multiple Counties

Dear Ms. Milligan:

Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) staff participated in the scoping meetings for the referenced Initiative, and provides the following comments and recommendations in accordance with the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA).

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (Service) is proposing to establish the Everglades Headwaters National Wildlife Refuge and the Everglades Headwaters Conservation Area under a new partnership effort, the Greater Everglades Strategic Habitat Conservation Initiative (Initiative), in south-central Florida. The purpose of this Initiative is to conserve land, water, and wildlife resources while maintaining the area’s rural farming and ranching land uses. Lands would be acquired through a combination of fee title and less-than-fee title interests in cooperation with willing landowners. To facilitate planning and implementation among the Service, its partners, and the public, the area to be addressed by the Initiative has been divided into three Study Areas. The Service has proposed that the first Study Area, the Everglades Headwater, be developed under the NEPA process that has already started with scoping this past January and that would end in a final plan in the August – September 2011 timeframe.

We are supportive of the conservation benefits and expanded opportunities for public hunting that a new national wildlife refuge could bring to the area, provided the major concerns expressed by Florida’s hunting community can be addressed. Hunters continue to tell us that one of the biggest reasons that hunting is declining in Florida is the lack of access to quality public hunting opportunities. Florida is no longer in a financial position to acquire large tracts of public lands for establishing new wildlife management areas, so the proposed Initiative presents an alternative opportunity to open more public lands for public hunting. We note that some of the national wildlife refuges in Florida do provide quality public hunting. In addition, private landowners are some of the best stewards of fish and wildlife resources, so we are supportive of federal funding for conservation easements that would allow them to continue their farming and ranching practices while gaining long-term conservation assurance.

To that end, we call the Service’s attention to the following key points that we strongly believe must be acted upon in order for this proposal to be successful in Florida.

• The scope and scale of the Initiative is large and ambitious. The proposed timeline does not appear to allow for adequate FWC and partner input and participation. The importance of a thoughtful and thorough vetting of issues among the potential partners cannot be overemphasized, and we believe we can help communicate and advocate for the issues that are central to fish and wildlife conservation and are important to Florida’s hunters and anglers.
• Of paramount concern is the level of public access that would be allowed on lands that would be acquired fee simple. The FWC strongly advocates for them to be opened to public hunting with access similar to that which we provide on wildlife management

Ms. Lauren P. Milligan
Page 2
March 14, 2011
areas (WMA) in this region of Florida. We encourage the FWS to consider developing a cooperative agreement with the FWC to establish fee simple acquisitions as WMAs, whereby FWC would have the lead responsibility for determining and implementing appropriate public uses and be provided resources necessary for administering those uses including hunting. We strongly encourage the FWS to develop a Public Hunting Plan as a component of the Land Protection Plan so as to accommodate opening of fee simple lands to public access, including hunting as soon as possible after acquisition. We urge the FWS to incorporate this into their preferred alternative for this Initiative.

• We have heard the concern of some stakeholders that the lands within the new wildlife refuge or Initiative boundary could eventually be designated as “primitive backcountry” or even “federal wilderness,” similar to the recent proposal for the Big Cypress Addition Lands. Similarly, we have heard the concern that the state-owned public lands within the Study Area boundary may be placed into federal management that would result in public restrictions or even closures. The FWC would be adamantly opposed to any of these actions.

• The FWC strongly supports private landowners’ rights and would oppose any action that would impose land-use restrictions that are not willingly agreed upon by participating landowners.

• The FWC and its partners already have many programs that identify this area as a high conservation priority, and we have a long history of working to conserve it. We recommend that the Service take the adequate time to become familiar with these efforts so the Initiative can make the best use of conservation benefits that they already provide. Example programs include:

• Landowner Assistance Programs;
• State Wildlife Action Plan;
• Cooperative Conservation Blueprint and regional pilot work;
• Florida Landscape Conservation Cooperative effort;
• Regional visioning initiatives such as the Heartland 2060 effort;
• Natural Resources Conservation Service’s programs and focus;
• County resources through their comprehensive development planning process; and
• Florida Forever land acquisition programs and assessments.

The FWC appreciates the opportunity to comment on the Service’s continued efforts to conserve the south-central Florida region through the Greater Everglades Partnership Initiative. We look forward to working with Service staff as this project moves forward. Please contact our Northeast Regional Director, Dennis David, by telephone at 352-732-1225 or by email at Dennis.David@MyFWC.com if you have questions or for future coordination regarding FWC’s participation.

Sincerely,

Nick Wiley

Executive Director
nw/map
ENV 1-3-2
Greater Everglades Partnership Initiative_3199_031411
cc: Ms. Cynthia Dohner, USFWS, Cynthia_Dohner@fws.gov
Mr. Mark Musaus, USWFS, Mark_Musaus@fws.gov


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« Reply #118 on: March 23, 2011, 10:24:59 PM »

Gladesman I will be at the meeting in Okee. to voice.


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« Reply #119 on: March 23, 2011, 10:37:50 PM »

Spit Blue Fire
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« Reply #120 on: March 25, 2011, 07:35:51 PM »

Report on 10 County Coalition meeting in Okeechobee.

Meeting had about 4 or 5 out of the 10 commissioners in attendance.

Started about 10 minutes late at 10:10am and ended around 12:15pm. Agenda was moved through pretty quickly. These folks move fast through the routine items.

Then we listened to 5 water reports covering many issues around Lake O. which is the main interest of this coalition. Reports were kind of boring to me except for the dike reinforcement report by Lt Col Mike Kinard of the USACE and the Headwaters report by our old friend Charlie Pelizza from USFWS.

Pelizza's report was similar to the usual with the same old powerpoint. Of course as usual he threw in a few twists and curves slightly different than other presentations possibly tuned to the specific audience he speaks to.

Charlie had problems today though. These commissioners didn't seemed too thrilled. In fact one commissioner asked him if any landowners had signed up for the Headwaters easements yet?

Instead of answering the question Charlie told him about the 15 or 20 landowners he had talked to already. A voice from the back of the room Danny B. yells out "the man asked how many are signed up?" Than the commissioner asked the question again and Charlie sheepishly answered the question "Nobody has." Getting to the truth is like pulling teeth with these folks and the commissioners saw it clearly.

Then we opponents were asked to start speaking - there were about 5 of us. We hit Charlie hard on many aspects of his sales pitch. I focused intently on his BS statement that NO TAX money will be used to do Headwaters. I explained to him and the commissioners that money didn't fall out of heaven into the grant fund sources listed by USFWS in their powerpoint. USFWS must really think we are all stupid but they will find out we are not stupid before this is all over.

Other folks focused on giving the money to the State in one way or the other so the Feds could be cut out of the picture. Personally I can't fully agree with that idea because if we are saying the America doesn't have the money for this than it shouldn't happen via the State or Feds. When we do this we look like a bunch of folks looking for a free hunting ride or something. The State doesn't deserve the money - the people deserve to have it left in their pockets for a change.

Everyone did a real good speaking job. I believe we were well received by the 10 County Coalition and that they appreciated our coming there to inform them of what we know.

Commissioner Echols from Glades county even mentioned how the 1st thing the Feds did in Big Cypress was to burn down the hunt camps. So much for Charlies promise concerning recreation, hunting etc. No Sale today in Okeechobee.

That's about it for now.

Gladesman
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« Reply #121 on: March 25, 2011, 07:57:38 PM »

Gladesman, Today went well I do agree that the commissioners did not buy charlies sales pitch but lets not let are guard down Glad I could be there to speak.
Thanks


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« Reply #122 on: March 25, 2011, 08:28:49 PM »

NO WAY - The Headwaters has been hit but definetly not down for keeps yet.

Gladesman
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« Reply #123 on: March 25, 2011, 09:02:34 PM »

 Clapper Clapper Clapper   THANK YOU for giving those that could'nt go a voice at the meeting.  i'll be keeping an eye out for those 2 scumbags in the future!!!!
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« Reply #124 on: March 25, 2011, 10:45:41 PM »

 Thumbs Up  Gladesman and RER!
Good info.  Thanks for sharing.  I do not trust CP or any of his cronies on ANYTHING they say.
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